I should note that I am not making any claim about Mr. Young's theology apart from the supplied quote.
“Remember, the people who know me are the ones who are free to live and love without any agenda.” “Is that what it means to be a Christian?” It sounded kind of stupid as Mack said it, but it was how he was trying to sum everything up in his mind.
“Who said anything about being a Christian? I’m not a Christian.” The idea struck Mack as odd and unexpected, and he couldn’t keep himself from grinning. “No, I suppose you aren’t.”
They arrived at the door of the workshop. Again Jesus stopped. “Those who love me have come from every system that exists. They were Buddhists or Mormons, Baptists or Muslims; some are Democrats, some Republicans and many don’t vote or are not part of any Sunday morning or religious institutions. I have followers who were murderers and many who were self-righteous. Some are bankers and bookies, Americans and Iraqis, Jews and Palestinians. I have no desire to make them Christian, but I do want to join them in their transformation into sons and daughters of my Papa, into my brothers and sisters, into my Beloved.”
“Does that mean,” said Mack, “that all roads will lead to you?” “Not at all.” Jesus smiled as he reached for the door handle to the shop. “Most roads don’t lead anywhere. What it does mean is that I will travel any road to find you.”
Karen: That was not in the movie
Mike: It is definitly in the book on which the movie is based, and it is echoed in Young's newly released non-fiction book that explains the theology of the Shack (movie and book).
Me: Reading the quote as it stands, without knowing whatever else Mr. Young has said or wrote, I don't see anything here that violates doctrine.
His beloved indeed comes from every tribe, nation, and tongue. And it is quite true that Jesus is not interested in making "Christians," if that means good little Sunday church people.
What he does do is violate is our churchy language.
Mike: You do realize that the term "Christian" comes from the NT and is not "churchy" language, right? The bible teaches that his followers will come from every tribe, nation, and tongue, but not through every religious system. The latter is entirely in conflict with the teaching of Scripture.
Me: I am well aware of that. If you think that Young is using the word "Christian" the same way as the Scriptures do, I would venture to say you are mistaken.
And Young does not use "through," he used the word "from."
Mike: Young has made it pretty clear where he stands in his newest book. The question is whether you really understand what he believes. Do you know that Young believes that one can remain a Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, etc… and still be saved? Whether you want to say “from” or “through” is just semantics if the end result is that you believe that Christianity offers no better path to salvation than any other religious system, and that is what Young believes.
Me: I prefaced my comments by saying I was judging by the quoted passage. I'm have no intention of debating what was not quoted.
Mike: I assume that Young's interpretation of his own words would take precedent over yours, agreed? Would you like a quote where young describes what he believes regarding salvation, when I get home I can provide another quote.
Me:: No.
Mike: In other words, you began by suggesting that Young's quote was being misunderstood and offered an alternative interpretation of his quote. But when comes down to it you really are not interested in understanding what Young really believes, even if it is exactly how it appears in the quote I provided.
Me: No, I was accurately evaluating what you posted, and that alone. I suspect that there is little to be gained by continuing our conversation.
I am not interested in micro-evaluating Young's doctrines.
Mike: It is definitly in the book on which the movie is based, and it is echoed in Young's newly released non-fiction book that explains the theology of the Shack (movie and book).
Me: Reading the quote as it stands, without knowing whatever else Mr. Young has said or wrote, I don't see anything here that violates doctrine.
His beloved indeed comes from every tribe, nation, and tongue. And it is quite true that Jesus is not interested in making "Christians," if that means good little Sunday church people.
What he does do is violate is our churchy language.
Mike: You do realize that the term "Christian" comes from the NT and is not "churchy" language, right? The bible teaches that his followers will come from every tribe, nation, and tongue, but not through every religious system. The latter is entirely in conflict with the teaching of Scripture.
Me: I am well aware of that. If you think that Young is using the word "Christian" the same way as the Scriptures do, I would venture to say you are mistaken.
And Young does not use "through," he used the word "from."
Mike: Young has made it pretty clear where he stands in his newest book. The question is whether you really understand what he believes. Do you know that Young believes that one can remain a Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, etc… and still be saved? Whether you want to say “from” or “through” is just semantics if the end result is that you believe that Christianity offers no better path to salvation than any other religious system, and that is what Young believes.
Me: I prefaced my comments by saying I was judging by the quoted passage. I'm have no intention of debating what was not quoted.
Mike: I assume that Young's interpretation of his own words would take precedent over yours, agreed? Would you like a quote where young describes what he believes regarding salvation, when I get home I can provide another quote.
Me:: No.
Mike: In other words, you began by suggesting that Young's quote was being misunderstood and offered an alternative interpretation of his quote. But when comes down to it you really are not interested in understanding what Young really believes, even if it is exactly how it appears in the quote I provided.
Me: No, I was accurately evaluating what you posted, and that alone. I suspect that there is little to be gained by continuing our conversation.
I am not interested in micro-evaluating Young's doctrines.
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